RP Class 1

Taught by Kyyel. RP Basics

May 8th, 2002

Class and Demonstration Room

[Use +desc to describe this room. Use +done to clear it
once you're finished.]
-=-=-=-=-=-=<>=-=-=-=-=-=-
=> Altair
=> Carenne
=> Javert
=> Xellia
=> Valak
=> Kyyel
-=-=-=-=-=<>=-=-=-=-=-
ut leads to Entertainment Nexus.

Kyyel says, "Now then, I'd like to ask that all comments be kept down
to a bare minimum. Questions will be allowed, however I do ask that
you first page Karrde and myself first; and we will then call on you
for your question. Any problems?"

Kyyel glances back and forth, then nods, "Ok. Now then, as you are all
aware (hopefully), this is the first RP class we've had here in a
while. Today we're going to discuss the Basics of RP and Star Wars,
and hope to get a better idea on what things should be sought for and
avoided in RP. We'll begin with the very basic things that every pose
should contain...

Javert hmms. "You mean obscenity?"
Kyyel now refers back to the thing he said about random comments Javert.
Javert will be a good boy.
Kyyel says, "Thank you."

Kyyel says, "Now then, on to a few things that poses should always
strive to contain: The first is that your pose should always have at
least moderate grammer and spelling. Having a 8-10 line pose is great,
but if no one can make it out, then you're leaving the people you're
RPing in a hard position while they sort it out. It's better to take a
while to pose than to put something out that can't be read."

Kyyel says, "Likewise though, if you're ESL (English Second Language),
I can understand that you may or may not have difficulty with
posing. If you have any questions about anything in that regard, don't
be afraid to ask someone for help; remember, we're all here to have
fun, and to make sure everyone else does as well."

Kyyel says, "Does anyone have any questions thus far?"

Fenske sneaks in quietly.
Fenske has arrived.
Fenske coughs
Kyyel says, "Hey Fenske; I'll page you what I just said, since
we just got started."
Gyzen_Bel sneaks in quietly.
Gyzen_Bel has arrived.
Gyzen_Bel waves
Kartijan sneaks in quietly.
Kartijan has arrived.
Valak taps his watch.

Kyyel gets no response, so looks to Karrde, "If you could give us an
example of a bad grammer pose?"

Gyzen_Bel taps valak.
Fenske nods
Fenske says, "hmm", in Basic.

Karrde walk's up 2 kyyel looking mean and with a big gun and he is
waering blak cloths he might be rabid maybe. "hi do u kno where sum
guy named joe is he told me to met him hear 4 a fite???" their is
something straing about him

Fenske fears.
Kartijan cringes..
Kyyel says, "For those just entering, try to keep comments to a
minimum; if you have a question you'd like to ask, just page me and
Karrde. :)"
Javert f34rs yet more.
Xellia applauds karrde. Spoken like a true yaheller.
Karrde bows, looking pale and drawn. :P
Kyyel says, "Cringing responses to that though are acceptable. :P"

Kyyel ahems and twitches, "Thank you... :> I'm sure you all can
imagine what a full RP session with that could be like.

Javert has disconnected.

Kyyel says, "And I'm sure it's something we all want to avoid. Now
then, on to the second thing that you should keep in mind:

Always try to keep your poses as descriptive as you can.

This does not mean spam the screen, but try to give a very clear
description of where your character is in relation to others, and what
your character is doing."

COMMENT> Taking into account the IC expanse of space described in the
room's @desc, too.

Kyyel says, "I'll go ahead and give two pose examples; showing two
poses, one that isn't so descriptive, while the other gives a little
better example of it. :)"
Kyyel says, "Again, if you all have any questions, please go ahead and
page. I won't bite. :)"

Kyyel walks up to Karrde, "Hi."

Kyyel says, "As you can see... there is not much there that he could
respond too."
Javert mutters things about AOL that cannot legally be repeated
anywhere.
Kyyel smiles, "S'okay Javert. :) At least you're back.
Kyyel says, "Now then, here's a little better pose..."

Kyyel looks up towards Karrde after he spots the other man, then
begins to walk over slowly. As he winds his way through a few desks, a
faint smile appears over his face, and he then sits down onto the seat
next to the smuggler, "Good afternoon, Karrde."

Kyyel says, "Now then, does anyone have anything to add to that last point?"

Javert would make a suggestion, actually- if I may?
Kyyel okays, "Javert first, then Gyzen.

Javert would say that in that pose, it almost covers too wide a
timescale. Okay, in this case it's a moot point, but suppose this was
another sort of scene. Suppose that character A. had a killing hatred
of character B, and wouldn't actually LET the individual get close
enough to him? I know it sounds stupid, but I've had similar stuff
happen before, of people walking right up to my character and starting
conversation, when (in particular on undercover missions) I'd have
backed away, avoided eye contact and all the rest. It sort of presumes
that the person is going to respond in a civilised way. ;)
Javert says, "Extended timescale poses are just one of my pet
peeves. Forgive me. ;)""

Kyyel smiles, "Not at all Javert, and it is a good point. That pose
was just to give an example; but also, I think most people are at
least OOCly aware what the others characters may think of them. :)
Kyyel says, "However, it is something that you should also be aware
of. Now then, Gyzen had a comment as well?"

COMMENT> Since it's an example, it doesn't have to consider past play
history, which would come into play in a real situation.

Kyyel says, "Gyz? :)"

Gyzen_Bel was thinking about people posing things that may seem
impossible, or difficult to perform icly. Like someone dancing and
shooting with the feet at the same time, or jumpijng from his ship and
landing 100 meters below, and so on. Ok these are extreme examples,
and it is hard to draw the line between what is possible/not possible
and what is not, or what is exaggerated and such, or forgetting aspect
of the landscape. So how shall we deal with someone posing that he is
walking on water ?

Kyyel says, "Well, if he is doing anything like that; he should have a
VERY good reason that he can. You should question it though, and
asking for a reason would not be out of line either."

Carenne says, "I have always asked them 'Is that really
possible'. They usually repose after I ask."

Gyzen_Bel says, "Ok now.. How should you conduct your character.. On
the long term. I mean is there a recipe to get constant amount of
roleplay (don't mean without getting out and find hooks) ? eg : having
deeper rp than casual rp in a bar. Should rp be oocly regulated --
sending @mail for startpoints -- or should it be let free to happen?"

Kyyel hmms, "That's something that I want to address in a later
class. All I'll say to that now is that it's really up to player
preference.

Gyzen_Bel says, "i meant should it be ... cant find the word."
Gyzen_Bel says, "spontaneous that is."

COMMENT> Yeah, the Art of Effective RP is a whole other object...

Kyyel says, "It depends Gyzen. Different situations have different lead ins."
Kyyel says, "Now then, back to the question on Impossible things: Some
characters actually DO have the ability to do supernatural abilities,
but more often than not, they have the Force Code to help reflect
this."

Kyyel says, "But I'll get to FUs later on in the class. Now then, does
anyone else have anything they'd like to say? If not, I'll move on."

Simon has a question.

Kyyel says, "5.. 4.. 3.. 2.. 1.. Ok. :) Go ahead Simon, and then I'll
move on. :)"
Simon says, "Are you going to go over what a 'power pose' is, and what
to do about it in this lesson?"
Kyyel says, "Yep. :)"
Simon says, "Okay, I'll be silent and watch until I have to leave."
Kyyel nods, "Ok then. My next point is also the final point I have at
this time:

Always be aware of the descriptions of your fellow RPers and that of the room.

This is very important; RPing being nice and cool on Tatooine is
probably pretty rediculous, and looking up to see where the sun is
when you're in a cave is likewise pretty weird. In relation to
characters though, if someone is cloaked and hooded to disguise
themselves, you probably won't recognize them halfway across the room;
not at first anyway.

Kyyel says, "That last point was pretty self explanatory. Now then,
let's move on to what NOT to do in RP. :)"

Gyzen_Bel has connected.
Xellia wonders if she could have any major things paged to her, so she
doesn't fall too far behind?
Carenne shakes her head. "I have a nidget for a second in command."
Kyyel pauses, "What was the last thing you had seen Xellia?
Xellia says, "uhh, Gyzen had just finished speaking. Sorry for being vague."
Kyyel ahs and nods. I see.
Kyyel says, "Karrde is logging, and you haven't missed too much. :)"
Xellia thankyous, and is caughtup.

Kyyel says, "Now then, the first thing that you should avoid in RP is
something very important: do NOT ever pose how others react to you,
also known as Powerposing. Even if they're tied down, unable to move,
and asleep, it is not your place to tell people how their character
reacts to you."

Class and Demonstration Room

[Use +desc to describe this room. Use +done to clear it
once you're finished.]
-=-=-=-=-=-=<>=-=-=-=-=-=-
=> Gar'thriln
=> Krinko
=> Simon
=> Kartijan
=> Gyzen_Bel
=> Fenske
=> Altair
=> Carenne
=> Javert
=> Xellia
=> Valak
=> Kyyel
-=-=-=-=-=<>=-=-=-=-=-
ut leads to Entertainment Nexus.

Kyyel says, "No matter how likely the outcome of your actions are, it
is very very rude OOCly to assume what they may do, and do it for
them. Feel free to add in what you're attempting to do, so they have
an idea of what to expect, but never do it for them. Karrde will give
us an example..."

Karrde notes this example is presuming no prior action on Kyyel's part, fyi...

Karrde, noting how Kyyel looks pretty scared by his evil goatee and is
probably paralyzed in fear, walks up to the man and easily punches him
in the nose faster than any eye could follow.

Kyyel nods. Now, go ahead and page me any questions or comments, while
Karrde gives the same pose, but how it should have been done. :)

Karrde, an expression of thin distaste on his face, spies Kyyel and
heads toward the man hands in tight fists.

Kyyel okays, "Simon has something he would like to say about this. :) Simon?

Simon says, "Essentially, it concerns consent and
assumptions. Sometimes, it -is- okay to pose some portion of another's
actions, with their consent. I've been in a few instances that it was
even necessary. It's dangerous ground, however. In addition to
collaborating with the person that you're building a pose with, it's
important that you let other people know that you have the permission
of the person you're picking up or what have you."

Kyyel says, "An excellent point Simon; consent is a very important
issue here on SW. If you have the other player's consent, then you can
pose portions of it. You still want to give them something to do
themselves though, and always let others know; otherwise you may gain
a bad reputation unintentionally. Now then, Xellia paged a comment to
me just a moment ago; would you state it for everyone?"

Xellia says, "Certainly... it was this : I think I know the asnwer to
this question... but if you'r character is delusional... would it be
okay to pose what you think the other person is reacting, using
description for your own character's feelings/thoughts? So in essence
doing the propper pose, but still adding a /little/ bit of the
powerposing things?"

Kyyel says, "Tricky question. You can pose what you think your
character is seeing; but make sure to make it very clear about the
delusions, and what really is happening. Essentially, make sure
there's a clear seperation, and you should be alright."

Xellia nods, thanks.

Kyyel says, "Now, last thing about powerposing; it can also be done
with NPCs, and it's a little easier to fall prey to it from them."

COMMENT> Never pose someone else's action, either voluntarily or
involuntarily, without their consent.

Kyyel says, "Which actually is going into my next point, but I'll
address this now. NPCs should be used as you would pose; don't do more
with them than you would normally. They should add to your RP, but
that does not give them the right to force others."

Kyyel says, "Ok, Javert?"

Javert nods. "With regards NPCs. Okay, this matters quite a lot more
to me than most, as I tend to find myself running MAJOR battles and
the like. But in, for example, a skirmish, I tend to rely on killing
NPCs more than player characters. And find that posing the effects of
my shots (given my main character's stats and the like) is simply
easier and quicker for both sides. Sure, it needs some negotiation to
make it all run right, but it's still a form of power posing. Now,
would you consider that to be "okay", and if not, what solutions do
you have to offer? Using +checks would, if anything, be unrealistic,
given that most combat PCs here have "1 in 1,000,000" or in Kiz's
case, "1 in 1,000,000,000" stats for blaster, dodge and so on.

Javert is using the WEG tables for skill levels here, btw, with 6D
being equal to 1 in 1,000,000
Altair says, "Skills make my eyes bleed."
Javert has tried to run battles on MU*s without them. That made my
entire body sweat blood.
Karrde has run many large battles without stats systems at all.

Kyyel says, "Technically, if everyone has agreed to it first, then I
suppose it will be alright. However, I still feel that it is better to
let the opposing players RP the outcome of your actions. Especially in
combat. I've rarely used my own skills here, even in battles. In the
end it's up to the players, but really, it's better to avoid it as a
whole."

Javert nods. "Aye, that's certainly viable for a squad level
skirmish. But take Athaniss, when we were posing for literally
thousands of men on every side. Then it's a different ball game."

Kyyel says, "Now, Carenne had another point that I'd like to bring
up... I'll ask her to repeat it now, so I can work on my response."

You say, "If I may offer suggestion there, the vague end result should
be agreed upon by both sides and go for drama and not precise things."

Carenne says, "I am the head of security for the griffons and I have
run into situations when IC I would not require people's consent, but
yet ooc I am required to get it, and they won't let me have it. How
should situations like this be handled?"

Kyyel says, "Now, you may not like the answer to this, but if they
will not consent, you'll need to find another way to handle it. But if
it is happening a lot, get in touch with the RPA. It's what they're
there for. Remember though, it is one thing to 'pull consent'
unrealistically, but it is just as unrealistic to walk in with a squad
of guards and telling someone they cannot get away."

Kyyel says, "Key point to remember: We're all here to have fun; and
you want to strive to find a way to have all people in a scene to have
an enjoyable time."

Javert will just comment, that IS something the griffons might want to
work on. I've done a few undercover trips there in my time, and have
been jumped by individuals without consent on each of them. (I'll add-
Carenne in fairness wasn't even around at the time, and certainly
wasn't involved)

Carenne nods. "Your right. Not the answer I whanted to hear."

Karrde adds, that the point isn't always 'win because I beat your
character' but 'win because it was a cool scene I enjoyed'.

Carenne nods. "I have gotten that taken care of. That person got in a
wee bit of trouble."

Karrde nods. "I mean, we all liked Empire Strikes Back, but hell if
Han didn't hate it. :D"

Javert nods. "Karrde, I couldn't agree more. But when you get SATs and
people surrounding your character and frisking him for no reason, when
you were only idling at the time, it's a bit much to bear."

You say, "Yes. Time to speak up in those cases."

Kyyel nods, "Now then, does anyone have anything more to add to that?

Carenne nods. "I will always give an option to run. You may not get
very far though" She smiles.

Javert nods. "I did. And for the record, some of my best RPs have
happened when my characters have been captured and all that stuff. I'm
not anti the IDEA, just the execution of it." *shuts up*

Altair also notes, however, that consent shouldn't be used as
something to hide behind either. I mean, if I if I fly around Dreven
mocking the Emperor over coms or something and then say I don't
consent to anything happening but me getting away, that would be
lame. There are limits to consent.

Kyyel nods again to Altair, "People do have to live with the
consequences of their actions.

You say, "Tough topic."

Javert ayes. "In this case, my character, deep undercover, was sitting
on the ramp of his ship, minding his own business, when all of a
sudden I was surrounded, frisked, bound up and all that stuff- before
I'd even posed in."

Carenne points to Altair. "Thats what I am referring to. I had a char
I had to let go. He murderd someon and we caught him. He then would
not consent to life in prison or execution.

Kyyel smiles, "Well, glad to see people had something to say on
that. Now then, if there's nothing else though, let's move onto the
next point.

Kyyel says, "The next thing to avoid in RP: Spam. It is possible to
OVER describe what your character is doing."

Kyyel says, "Karrde will demonstrate. :)"
Karrde takes a deep breath and types...
Javert adds- it's not TRUE spam unless you include one of the
following words: Ebon, crimson, optics, sanguine.

Karrde strolls into the area, looking bored. What a night last night,
with the meeting. Everyone was late, and we ran out of donuts, even
the littles one with the crimson frosting. Mmm. The smuggler was
forced to be content with a cup of rich, ebon caff. And then the
projector broke, the optics fried from too many games of shadow
puppets while drunk. Pity that. The man vows as he walks to hold more
meetings outside, in the sanguine grass that dotted the lawn of
Myrkr... well, after someone had used a lot of paint on some
project. He nods to Kyyel as he walks by.

Altair giggles
Karrde grins.

Kyyel chuckles, "Yes, there is that. Other things to avoid are every
single fold and flap of cloth, and every blink of your eyes, and the
like.

Javert hmms. "Well done. Though.. a blood red lawn? ;)"

You say, "This is a different type of spam that may be different than
what Kyyel meant, actually. If you took that pose and condensed it
down to what someone could react to, it sums up as 'Karrde nods to
Kyyel as he passes by.'"

You say, "VERY narrative, and while pretty to read sometimes, hard to
RP with and react to, given the sheer amount of text anyway."

Kyyel nods, "Also, if your pose begins to take up more than your
screen size, it's too long. Granted, I'm probably guilty of that at
times, but it is something you want to keep a hold of. :)

Javert okays, I might do that as well. A fair bit. But the thing is,
if I'm rping on an individual level, I have a lot of emotional content
to get across.. And if I'm running a battle.. well, I know at least
some of you have seen how I pose on Kiz, in that sort of scene.

Karrde nods and thinks combat poses are long due to detail, but
there's a lot more in them to react to and that others can really see.

Kyyel says, "One last thing: Pose length should be kept in relation to
the # of people in the RP. The more people, the shorter your poses;
keeps it nice and quick, and easy to read and follow. :)"

Kyyel says, "Now then, does anyone else have anything they'd like to
say about that? If not, I'll move on to my final don't."

Kyyel says, "Now then, my last point on the don'ts of RP: Don't take
forever to pose. Try to respond in a timely manner. If you take too
long to pose, the RP drags onward, and people begin to lose interest
and the feel of the scene."

Kyyel says, "A few minutes is fine, but if you start to take 20-30
minutes between poses, then you need to find a way to cut down the
time, if possible. If you're idle though and it cannot be helped, tell
the people you're RPing with. I know I'm very understanding about it,
and I've seen others to be the same way."

Kyyel says, "Does anyone have any comments on this? Raise your hand or
page me. :)"
Kyyel says, "Anyone? :)"
Kyyel says, "Kart has something? :)"
Kartijan says, "when I know I'm going ot be that severely idle I
try to pose myself to a position of not needing to pose and then say
so OOCly so people know to pose around me til I return.."

Kyyel nods, "Always the best idea. Anyone else?"
Kyyel says, "Inso? :)"
Javert darns. Can some kind person page me what's just been said?

Inso says, "Actually, forget that. Sorry, I just remembered the answer."
Kyyel says, "Inso, you wanted to say something?"

Inso says, "I just said: Actually, forget that. Sorry, I just
remembered the answer."
Inso grins
Kyyel ahs.
Inso says, "sorry."

Kyyel says, "Arands also wished to add something?"

Arands says, "yes, and I'll keep it short :) lemme cut/paste"
Karrde fears. :)
Arands says, "One thing I notice is that often times in a large
scene, someone in the scene sees a 'recognizable' character and wants
to get into their scene - and they plunge right in without noticing
that this person already has "X" number of people that are waiting for
a response from them from their poses. My thought: be aware of who and
what else in a scene is affecting a person you plan to interact with."
Arands says, "because sometimes they are already working on
their response pose, and if they don't respond to you right away, give
them a round to do so"
Arands says, "/spam"

Kyyel says, "Krinko has something to state, and then we'll move on to
the final point."

Krinko says, "Might I add, Ask first if a sceen is going if you
do not know, and ask before you pose, as to retain the cohereance (or
pose order) of the sceen."

Kyyel says, "Okay then, I'm moving on to our final point of the class:
FUs and FCs."

Kyyel says, "Now, I all know that we'd all like to bask in the
gracious and glorious presense of Karrde and the like. :) It's
understandable, however, there is a good point to realize: They're
players too, and having hundreds of people fawning over them all the
time tends to... grate. ;)"

Karrde :P
Altair fawns over Karrde

Kyyel says, "Well, Altair can, but the rest of ya! ;)"

Kyyel says, "Also, lately I have heard a great deal of discussion
brought up about stats and the like: This point though, I'm going to
give to Karrde."

You say, "Something I've wanted to point out for a while, as a FC, is
that to my knowledge, none of the FCs or FUs here have liked or wanted
to use stats in RP, and only do so when asked. I know people think
we're Buff Stat Invincibles, but that point gets nicely buried when
that comes up. I have a 5D in Blaster, too. Thanks. ;)"

Karrde sits down and fawns over Altair.

Kyyel grins, "Another good point: Stats are not the be all end all of
how to decide things. More often than not, I'd rather RP it out, due
to factors that the dice cannot take into account.

Kyyel says, "Mainly, I use dice to help represent what I feel is a
good image of my character."

Kyyel says, "Anyone have anything that they would like to add on this?
:) If not, then I have nothing further for tonight."

Gavin nods, "I agree with the RPing it Kyyel, the dice are good for
some things but not for others, which would bring me to my preference
of RPed rather then coded combat, except for I think that's covered in
another class."

Kyyel says, "Yep. ;)"
Gavin grasps his tardy slip and will try to make that one. :)
Kyyel says, "Anyone else? :) *THWACKS Gavin with a ruler*"
Inso raises a hand.
Kyyel says, "Yes Inso."

Kyyel says, "Nilavel will post any openings on the bulleton boards
when she begins to take applications for them; as for checking open
slots... that I'm not sure since +jedi was taken out..."

Altair says, "If there are open slots, they'll announce them"
Kyyel says, "+features will show you open feature slots though. You
just have to wait for the FU ones to be announced. :)"

Inso says, "Heh, it's not like I'd be applying soon, but I'm thinking
about it as something to work on a bit.. later on. Thanks for the
info."

Karrde is taking apps for his Doomed Sidekick.
Kyyel nods, "No problem, does anyone else have anything they'd like to
add? Last chance...

Kyyel says, "5.. 4.. 3.. 2.. 1.. OK! :) That's it for the RP and SW
basics course. I hope you all found it informative and helpful! :)"