RP Class 5

Taught by Kyyel. Combat Ettiquette

1/13/2004

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Class and Demonstration Room
[Use +desc to describe this room. Use +done to clear it once you're finished.]
-=-=-=-=-=-=<>=-=-=-=-=-=-
=> Schniquil
=> Nikarn
=> Naota
=> Jessie
=> Webb
=> Zrak
=> Dibar
-=-=-=-=-=<>=-=-=-=-=-
ut leads to Entertainment Nexus.

Announcement: Minkar shouts, "Kyyel's Combat Ettiquette class is starting in the classroom in OOC land. It is off the entertainment nexus. Go and learn!"

Dibar flexes for Leia, and waggles his eyebrows at her.

Naota contemplates cutting his belly open like a samurai

Korolov says, "Do it!"

Naota bleeds on Korolov

You say, "Okay guys, quick set of rules here: If you have a question or statement, please page me or raise your hand, and I'll call on you. Don't page me your whole statement either, just that you have one. Also, do keep this moving as smoothly as possible, keep all OOC and unrelated chatter down to a minimum."

Leia says, "Naota's innards would be a bunch of ones and zeros."

You say, "CLASS IS NOW IN SESSION!"

You say, "Now then, if everyone's taken their seats and presented the teacher with customary apples... *eyes the empty desk* Or not! :> Anyway, today's class, as I'm sure you're all aware, is on Combat Ettiquette."

Skeezix waves.

You say, "This class will go over the basics of what, exactly, Combat Ettiquette is, and what would in general be polite ways to handle situations, and also point out what situations to avoid during combats, either Space or Ground. Hopefully, you'll be able to walk away with new ideas on how to make combat that much more enjoyable here on the MUSH. Now then, does anyone have any questions before I continue on?"

Nikarn raises his hand

Kyyel looks across the room, "Yes Nikarn?"

Nikarn says, "auber auber gana cotta hool?", in Hutt.

Kyyel ahems, "Make sure you all have your default language set to basic.

Nikarn says, "Are we going to shoot anything?"

Kyyel shakes his head, "Not exactly. This is just a class to show some basics of combat and how to manage tense situations that may arise OOCly."

You say, "does that answer your question?"

Kyyel looks across the room, "If there are no other questions, I'll continue. To start off, it's important to remember one thing: You're not in a competition here, you're essentially acting. The point of this game isn't who can make the most powerful combat character, but to Roleplay and develop that character."

You say, "Please note, that the concept you have COULD be the combat junkie, and as long as you're having fun with it, there's no reason why you shouldn't follow through with that if that's what you want to play, but do realize that might limit your RP opportunities to some degree... no one likes to hang out with people who are prone to violence. Also remember that all combat here is consentual: meaning that you need the person's permission for most actions that will affect their characters."

Jessie raises hand

You say, "Yes Jessie."

Jessie pauses, then realizes "nevermind. my question just answered itself.

Howie raises a hand! Pick me pick me!

Kyyel smiles, "Alright, Howie?"

Howie asks, "Is it possible to do a combat scene without using the code and perhaps only +checks as an option, to give players a bigger variety of creative actions?"

Jessie nods approvingly at Howie

Naota puts up his hand

Jessie has one after Naot

You say, "Actually Howie that's the most popular form of using combat here on the MUSH currently. I've never actually used the coded combat here. I'll be covering +Checks later on in the class though. :) Naota?"

Naota says, "i was just gonna say the same thing, that i've never seen anyone using +blast or +shoot, that it's usually just +check against +check, or even better, once i simply shared sheets with the other person for reference then we both just posed according to our relevant skill levels.."

You say, "An excellent point Naota. :) I'll be getting to that shortly."

You say, "Jessie?"

>From afar, Zrak will page and allow you to sort out what enters the public record. "While NEWS CONSENT doesn't actually say anything about avoiding combat with non-consent, I see how its become a cultural policy here. How would you suggest non-consent work in a Scene? Say my character was the violent war-mongering type, and started to pick a fight with someone that turns out didn't want to fight... what happens?"

Jessie says, "THe consensual thing - I will presume everyone here knows better, but does Consensual Death cover STupidity? Like if someone took their piddly litlte ewok up against Darth Vader, they're pretty much asking for it?"

Jessie says, "like a 'you should've known better' thing"

Nikarn says, "I should hope that if you do something that is obviously a bad call and you knew it then that would be considered consent. Like say, blowing up the entry to Begula's palace, or maybe stealing something OOCly...."

Jessie nods. Obvious abuse or stupidity. Thanks

Kyyel nods, "Stupidity... or similar actions, does not cover consent. If you decide you're going to ram a star destroyer in an escape pod... more likely than not demanding that your character lives is definitely being unreasonable. Likewise, if you get a warning from another player along the lines of "If you do/continue , my character will you," then all bets are off, because if you're doing something to actively provoke another character, then that player is fully in their rights to act how they see their character responding. But there are limits to this..."

Dibar raises his hand, for a comment.

Nikarn raises his hand as well.

You say, "A player cannot demand this of you. Such demands are along the lines of: "If you RP with me, then you're automatically consenting that I can just randomly kill your character, since it's in his concept." That's neither warning nor consent; that's bullying. It does become a consent issue say if you're tossing spitballs at... say... Boba Fett's helmet, he warns you ICly or OOCly that if you continue you might get hurt, you continue anyway, he turns to blast you, and then you start crying consent that he can't attack/kill you. In that case, the warning was given, and you continued the action knowing full well what the consequences will be."
You say, "Okay, Zrak has a question, then Dibar, then Nikarn."

Zrak asks, "While NEWS CONSENT doesn't actually say anything about avoiding combat with non-consent, I see how non-consent has become a cultural policy here. How would you suggest non-consent work in a scene? Say my character was the violent war-mongering type, and started to pick a fight with someone that turns out didn't want to fight... how should their non-consent be handled?"

Jessie always finds the sudden arrival of npc local law enforcement often helps. Cheap, but it works... sometimes.

Howie says, "The person who doesn't want to fight can always walk away, I don't think it's right to force someone into a fight."

Kyyel nods, "That's a very good question, Zrak. And Jessie's statement brings up a very, very important set of points as well. I'll answer this quickly.

Jessie says, "don't use cheap ways like that out :)"

Kyyel grins, "Okay, the answer to the intial question is actually along the lines of Jessie's response: On most civilized worlds, there's going to be some kind of presense of Law Enforcement, especially along the Core Worlds like Corellian and Coruscant. In those cases, if your character's itching for a fight... before you pose... I recommend paging the person first, OOCly, and discussing the possibility with them before you start to pick a fight. It's likely that a sudden scuffle might interest them completely, or they might suggest you look elsewhere first. Do remember.

Jessie thinks you should ask before entering ANY scene. Dunno what you're walking into

Naota puts up his hand to make a quick comment

Jessie shuts up. Sorry.

You say, "If you're the person getting picked on though... I would highly recommend NOT calling in NPCs of local law enforcement. First off, it's a cheap way out and it's a great way to make a bad impression to have NPCs take care of you. Secondly, if you're on a world like Tatooine or even Nar Shaddaa, the only real law enforcement probably would turn a blind eye to most bar brawls... so you might be stuck in a rut. Third, and this refers back to the one starting the fight: even if you're the war monger, almost every planet takes a negative view on attempted killings in public places. Even the Hutt's court isn't going to want it to be known for random deaths or blastings: not good for his business and it looks like he can't keep control of his own domain. ;)"

Zrak follows-up with, "I suppose the true point I'm trying to get at is this: Does their non-consent have to be expressed in IC terms or not? Yes, they don't want to fight. But, ICly my character does, and initiates RP accordingly. Can the other person just OOCly state that he or she doesn't want to fight, and thus quash my scene? Or, do they have to actually pose their reluctance and attempt to flee."

Kyyel ahems. Sorry that took so long. Now then... Dibar then Nikarn. And Jessie, you made an excellent point that should be addressed, don't feel you need to apologize for anything. :)

You say, "Well... OOCly yes, they can. Do keep in mind they might not even be available to RP at that moment... and may be taking care of OOC matters. If they're already mid-scene, and they express dis-interest in it... why not ask others that they're dealing with. Keep in mind though, if you're in a seedy cantina where brawls are not only possible but likely, then you've already given some level of consent to something bad possibly happening: if you want a nice, safe place to have a drink, there's countless places on the MUSH to do that, you don't need to go run down to Tatooine's cantina for it."

You say, "Now then, Dib?"

Dibar says, "I'd just like to make the point that with all this talk of consent and stuff, that it shouldn't scare people away from acting in-character. Dibar's ICLy done some -really- dumb things in his days on this MUSH. I've done it because 1) It was in character and entertaining, and 2) I trusted the people I was RPing with -not- to off my character, even though he probably deserved it. Ask people what their thoughts on PKing (and other things) are, if you have any doubts about what you're doing."

You say, "Dibar makes an excellent point: Star Wars isn't exactly known for its characters making smart and rational decisions. :) You can look at the movies for any # of examples."

You say, "Nikarn, Naota, then Schniquil."

You say, "After that I'm going to want to move on. :)"

You say, "Please note, if you have something you want to ask, go ahead and write the question ahead of time and just keep it ready in the clipboard for when you're called on. :)"

You say, "Naota, go ahead and ask your question."

You say, "Nikarn, ask yours whenever you return. :)"

Naota says, "This is a comment to what Jess said a while ago: Being in a room on the grid doesn't mean that you're IC-ly there, not till you actually pose in, so if someone walks into that room he shouldn't just start posing without asking you first.. and of course the same goes for you, ask people if they're RP_OK before you start posing, you could have 2-3 people just OOC-ly chatting in a room, maybe they're waiting for someone else to connect before their scene could begin. Also if there's a scene in progress it's best to wait for at least 2 poses from everyone else so you can get a feel for what's going on.."

Jessie says, "if I may add, also, tis a good idea to not pose to a person the moment they walk in... they could be in the process of being carried in dead or something. ;) *shuts up now that she gets that pet peeve out of the way*"

Naota says, "that way if there's combat going on, or you think the scene is heading that way you can just not pose in and walk away :)"

Jessie nods

You say, "Both are good points: Don't assume someone's there just because you see them. They may be hiding, sleeping, feeding a rancor... whatever. :) But it's always good form to wait for them to pose. Schniquil?"

Schniquil says, "My question has to do with +check combat. As we've established that's how most combat here takes place. But there's no built in rules when you do it that way, for things ilke penalties, armor, wound damage, which means people come up with their own systems. And it seems there's a lot of systems in use. So how do you make sure everyone's on the same track in combat, and has equal and fair understanding of the rules and all accept them as fair, when there's so many different ways combat is performed?"

Kyyel is coming up to that very point.

Kyyel will move on now... my final statement on this matter of consent: Consent can't be used to get your character out of a bad situation, nor should it be used to stop a scene entirely. Run away, call for the authorities, or get beat up are all fun ways to find an IC resolution to a scene (I've done all three myself too).

You say, "Nikarn, once again, if you return feel free to ask your question. Right now I'm going to move onto the next part of the class... and I'll need a volunteer. :)"

Naota says, "pick me!"

Webb shrugs, and volunteers too.

Dibar loves to volunteer!

Nikarn apologizes and is at work. "Forgot my question..."

Jessie doesnt. Just to be different.

Jessie says, "footnote about choosing the third option a lot: People tend to get tired of rescuing you and dragigng you toa bacta tank, so use sparingly"

Jessie says, "well, if you do it a LOT"

Schniquil volunteers Korolov

Gabrielle volunteers!

Kyyel wows, "Wasn't expecting that many... hmm... well we haven't heard from Gabrielle yet, so you're the victi... err... volunteer. ;)

Scaven will volunteer

Freya phewws.

Gabrielle snickers.

Nikarn holds up his hand "Pick me, pick me!"

You say, "Now then, we're going to be going over +checks now... and with the realization they're not a perfect alternative to resolving combat, but they are a convienent one that's easily used. Now, the scene is Gabrielle is running from some opponents that are chasing her through a thick, muddy swamp, while peppering her with heavy volumes of blaster fire. Gab, go ahead and pose. :)"

Naota says, "You can't really expect her to pose.. she's an NR Commando, they never run away.. :)"

Kyyel tosses an apple at Naota. :P

Jessie peers?

Gabrielle apologises as a friend stopped by. All yours Kyyel

You say, "Another quick statement here... in the type of situation I just put forth... it's not unreasonable to assume that someone's mobility is limited, and aren't able to move quite as quickly as they would be able to under more... forgiving terrain. However, if the combat has been agreed upon beforehand to use +checks then situational things like that cannot be measured... and trying to decide on how much they will affect someone will probably take much longer than the combat resolution. (Note: you should ALWAYS communicate OOCly how you want to handle the combat prior to beginning it, NEVER assume that you'll be using +checks, +roll, RP, or coded combat)"

You say, "Gab, go ahead and give me a quick +check on dodge. :)"

Gabrielle rolls a 21 for her DODGE skill. An Excellent roll!

Gabrielle blinks "Now why couldn't I have rolled that with Donivan the other night."

You say, "Okay, now Gab just made a really spiffy roll on 4 dice. :) But slogging through waist deep mud, with people blasting heavily at her, I imagine some of you would be under the impression that the roll shouldn't be just a straight roll, and should have some type of modifier, correct?"

You say, "Questions can be asked at any time BTW, just raise your hand. :)"

Howie says, "Oh yeah, Admins or Judges will always be present for combat to make sure things go smoothly right?"

You say, "Most of the time, but not always Howie."

Howie nods.

You say, "Okay, Gab's got her pose ready. Let it fly."

It wasn't as if the rain soaked ground was enough of an obstacle to trudge through but the blaster fire raining down on her now, was enough to send anyone into a defensive stance. Boots sticking deep into the cement like mud which seemed deeper in some places than others, it's all Gabrielle can do to to keep from tumbling into the brush and plants. Mud caked to about her waist, she pushes through the unyeilding sludge with all her might. At least the plants afforded some partial cover, catching the blaster bolt with a sizzle that would have no doubt hit her directly.

You say, "Okay then, does anyone have any comments on that pose, assuming she made that roll right afterwards?"

You say, "Thank you Gabrielle. :)"

Naota puts up his hand

You say, "Ta?"

Naota says, "Well, we didn't see the blaster check, but if she rolled her defense after the pose.. then how could she already pose the outcome of the attack?"

Kyyel ahems. That's my fault and a case of mistaken wording. :) I meant to say right beforehand. :)

Naota says, "ahh :)"

Gabrielle :P's at Ta

You say, "You should always make your defense roll immediately after an attack roll if using +check or +roll."

Jessie says, "So... it would go Attacker's pose, attackers Check, then Defender's Check, then defender's pose, and if they are, rebuttal, then their rebuttal check?"

You say, "Right."

Jessie says, "ok"

You say, "In the case of Gab's pose, she used what was around her to reflect a better than should-be dodge: trees, mud, branches, vines all can be used as some type of cover... and what mobility Gabrielle lost was probably made up for by the lack of a clear firing line. In this kind of case... it's best just to let the +checks alone; in the case of armor... that affects damage more than an actual ability to hit you, use that when you're posing the affect of a strike. But do realize that most armor can't withstand more than a few direct hits, if any depending on what the weapon is."

You say, "Does anyone have any questions or statements?"

Naota says, "yes"

You say, "Naota?"

Naota says, "i just want to add that there's more to combat then blaster and dodge, in this situation of a running firefight you can use stamina and atheltics, and hide and perception and all sorts of other skills that most 'twinks' tend to ignore.."

Kyyel nods. That's very true, Naota.

Naota says, "and on that note i have to head out to deal with RL but i'd appreciate is someone could log the rest of this class for me.."

You say, "does anyone else have anything they'd like to add?"

Kyyel is logging this currently, Naota. :)

Naota says, "thanks, just drop me an e-mail then"

Naota says, "thanks everyone :)"

Naota waves out

Scaven raises his hand

You say, "Yes Scaven?"

Scaven just wants to build on your statement. It's always a good idea to use alternative means of dodging or actually hitting someone other then using +checks as pure skill. Like if two people fire at you in one round, and you manage to dodge them both with your roll, that doesn't mean you did it through pure skill of your character. Remember that there's a side of luck in the roll of the dice, and seeing a shot coming and having it accidentally hit a passing droid causing you to flinch which created the dodge for the 2nd shot that you didn't even know happened would also be acceptable.

You say, "You just took the words right out of my mouth. :)"

Kate chuckles.

You say, "Now then, we'll be moving on to the next point I want to address... but following Scaven's thoughts it's important to remember that some of the best RPers I've ever witnessed didn't pose pure skill. In fact, I've seen some people who had fantastic skills have most of their dodges or evasions happen more out of sheer dumb luck... tripping, falling, crying like a little girl while hiding behind a trash can... that kind of stuff also adds a bit of humor and flavor to combat rather than just shoot/dodge/repeat."

You say, "Now, my next point is one that more than a few of us... including myself... have a tendency to do without realizing it. Powerposing without you knowing it, or even your opponent."

You say, "To give an example... say two characters are in a heated firefight. (the type of combat system, either skills or RP, isn't important for this example) Both are bunkered down enough that neither side has a clear advantage. Player 1 suddenly poses pulling a grenade and tossing it at Player 2's feet, exploding almost instantly."

You say, "Now, who can point out some possible or potential problems with the situation I just presented?"

Scaven raises his hand

You say, "Scaven?"

Scaven says, "esoog' va cotta va boko, oso mejo va oso auber ozzon oso koks ", in Hutt.

Scaven laughs, "oops, still in hutt. What I said was, You've posed too much for one round, not to mention leaving out room for a defense pose"

You say, "Everyone, please feel free to ask any questions you might have. Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question... and just because you may have realized an answer doesn't mean someone else wasn't thinking the same thing, but didn't realize the answer. :)"

Kyyel wonders about the sudden prevelance of Huttese in the classroom. ;)

You say, "Exactly Scaven."

You say, "Does anyone else see any potential problems they'd like to address before I clarify on what Scaven said?"

Leia raises her hand.

You say, "Yes Leia? :)"

Kate tentatively raises a hand, though she waits to see what Leia says.

Kyyel smiles and nods. Leia, then Kate.

Leia says, "I've been paying attention, really! There's room for error in the IC situation you proposed too. The grenade through isn't necessarily perfectly accurate. Both players could pause and come to an agreement over how to (possibly randomly) determine the throw's accuracy, thereby giving the targetted player more of a chance."

Kyyel grins, "Excellent point! :) Now, Kate?

Leia says, "Er, grenade throw. I apologize for raw telnet typos."

Gabrielle sympathises

Kyyel pats and sympathizes.

Kate nods, her expressoin thoughtful. "The character throwing does not take into account the terrain. They are both bunkered down, so the throw would have to be either good enough, or lucky enough to get to the target's feet without exploding against whatever they use for shelter. Though I think that goes hand in hand with what Leia said."

You say, "It does but it bears mentioning. :)"

Gabrielle raises her hand

You say, "Yes Gabrielle?"

Gabrielle may be going on a tangent here but...I'm not sure which skill would apply on this as well, perhaps thrown weapons? If the +check hasn't been done, wouldn't a player also need to take into account whether or not their skill is appropriate for the determined length/distance. I mean if they failed the roll or didn't roll sufficently for the grenade to fly far enough they risk causing damage to themselves.

You say, "Very good point Gab... and yes, Thrown weapons would probably be the most appropriate skill to use in that case. I'm going to elaborate on what has been said previously though before I take any more statements. :)"

You say, "First, on what Scaven said... he was right... there was too much action, too quickly. Player 1 pulled out the grenade, readied it, and threw it all in the same turn. Even if he hadn't stated that it exploded, he could have said it was primed to explode on impact. This leaves Player 2 without any real means to defend himself, and it has Player 1 doing something that should take more than one pose."

You say, "A good rule of thumb: always take a single pose to ready a weapon. Not use it, but just bring the weapon to bear. Also, keep in mind what kind of weapons would be appropriate in certain situations: grenades in close quarters will do as much damage to you as they will your opponent, if not more. Firing a blaster in hand to hand combat will leave you without much in the way of defending yourself should your shot miss. Also, try to avoid actions that don't give your opponent any kind of defense whatsoever: using explosives to hit an area, using codes for your ship to suddenly open your hangar airlock... they tend to leave your opponent wondering how the heck he's supposed to survive, let alone defend. Actions like that should be used sparingly, and with prior knowledge to your opponent. Remember, we're all here to have fun; you don't get any special bonus for "winning" a fight."

Kyyel waves, "Thanks for coming. :)"

You say, "Now, on to what Leia, Kate, and Gabrielle said... there's no guarenteeing that your throw will land just how you want it, or in the examples I just gave... no guarentee the airlock will just open up for you, or if you even have that kind of security information to drop the safeties. Some kind of +check would be appropriate to be called for... either security/slicing for the airlock or forcefield to blow the hangar open into space, or thrown weapons to put the grenade where you want it."

You say, "Or, have it as a specific part of a plot you're working on... like a stun grenade to capture (Bounty hunters would probably have some of these, but there's no guarentee the target will go down with one), gas in a room like in Ep. 1, or the hordes of reinforcements that was guarding the shield generator in Ep. 6."

You say, "Actions like that though, should be agreed upon before... and like in those situations, be prepared for some kind of nasty surprise you might recieve, and have your ambush backfire. :) Not only is it fun for all, but it fits well into the Star Wars theme. Remember, in the end, the good guys will win. They might get beaten up along the way though."

Kate raises her hand, cause she does not want to interrupt...

You say, "Yes Kate? :)"

Kate rises from her chair, "I need to head out. May I please get a log of the rest of the class?"

Kate says, "Thank you for holding the class, by the way. It was very informative and helpful. I greatly appreciate your taking the time to do it."

You say, "It will be posted actually. :) Look for the announcement."

You say, "Thank you for attending. :)"

Kate smiles, "It was my pleasure." She bows slightly, then slips silently out the door.

You say, "Now then, before I begin to wrap up, does anyone have any questions they'd like to ask about any combat situations in general? Or have any statements about combat ettiquette they'd like to make?"

Scaven raises his hand as he has something to add

Webb ponders.

You say, "Yes scaven?"

Scaven would just like to mention that losing can be very fun. Not only can you find cool ways to lose, but it also offers avenues for future RP through conflict and revenge. And, don't be so quick to keep things simple and scheduled. If you create a lot of spontaneous conflict, it will get you more RP in the future, and some of those spurred combat scenes that you just happen to walk into during idle times when you feel you can't find any RP.

Scaven says, "spontaneous conflict doesn't sound like I intended. I didn't mean for that to sound like I'm promoting you going around picking on people. I think you get the idea.", in Basic.

Kyyel nods, "I'll agree to that. One of the best times I ever had was when I was ambushed, beaten, stunned, and captured... none of which was planned with my knowledge beforehand! But I went with it, and it turned into one of the best scenes I have EVER been in.

You say, "And on that note... the best advice I can give for combat is to simply have fun! Try new risks! Don't be afraid to lose! I've seen Jedi Masters here trip over their robes and knock themselves cold, so don't worry about looking stupid or foolish. More likely, you'll be congratulated and commended on your actions rather than rideculed. However, if a situation occurs that you cannot resolve, always remember that the Judges will happily help resolve a situation: just be aware they may not judge in your favor. Be polite, respectful, and above all else thank them for their time and assistance."

Scaven stands and claps, "Well done"

Leia offers the K-meister ice for his red-hot typing hands. :)

Korolov laughs.

Kyyel grins and blushes, "Thanks. :)"

Korolov says, "Good show."

You say, "I call this class to a close now! Thank you all for attending!"